Comments for matt and ryan's blog http://mattandryan.wordpress.com Where bloggers come to rest their souls Mon, 06 Oct 2008 21:14:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU hourly 1 Comment on Church Life and the Mortgage Crisis by adam h http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/church-life-and-the-mortgage-crisis/#comment-3039 adam h Mon, 06 Oct 2008 00:15:38 +0000 http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/church-life-and-the-mortgage-crisis/#comment-3039 "why did we as church leaders allow this “elephant in the room” level sin to persist in our congregations for the past few years?" Because some of them were making money on real estate speculation, and contributing to the problem of overvaluing assets? Just sayin'. And Todd: "Blaming people for this stuff just seems to be a waste of energy. " Maybe, but pointing out faulty policy, and those that defended it, is one step toward ensuring that this doesn't happen again. The church is out of its depth trying to deal with the financial issues here. Economists don't agree on what is happening; how does the church think it can sort things out? The church should focus on dealing with issues of heart and morality, and where those intersect with economy and society. “why did we as church leaders allow this “elephant in the room” level sin to persist in our congregations for the past few years?”

Because some of them were making money on real estate speculation, and contributing to the problem of overvaluing assets? Just sayin’.

And Todd: “Blaming people for this stuff just seems to be a waste of energy. ”

Maybe, but pointing out faulty policy, and those that defended it, is one step toward ensuring that this doesn’t happen again.

The church is out of its depth trying to deal with the financial issues here. Economists don’t agree on what is happening; how does the church think it can sort things out? The church should focus on dealing with issues of heart and morality, and where those intersect with economy and society.

]]> Comment on Church Life and the Mortgage Crisis by matt http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/church-life-and-the-mortgage-crisis/#comment-3038 matt Sun, 05 Oct 2008 20:54:55 +0000 http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/church-life-and-the-mortgage-crisis/#comment-3038 Um, I guess the only way to preach on it when people are thriving is to grow a sack. Everyone knew what was going on 3 years ago, and even talked about a "bubble burst" in the coming days the way kids take about their parents coming home in a few hours when the house is a mess and needs cleaning. We in the church knew it was a mess, the problem was our hands were just as dirty. Not sure how I would preach it, but my text would be 1 John 2:15-17: 15Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever. Um, I guess the only way to preach on it when people are thriving is to grow a sack. Everyone knew what was going on 3 years ago, and even talked about a “bubble burst” in the coming days the way kids take about their parents coming home in a few hours when the house is a mess and needs cleaning. We in the church knew it was a mess, the problem was our hands were just as dirty.

Not sure how I would preach it, but my text would be 1 John 2:15-17:

15Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.

]]> Comment on Church Life and the Mortgage Crisis by todd http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/church-life-and-the-mortgage-crisis/#comment-3037 todd Sun, 05 Oct 2008 16:54:35 +0000 http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/church-life-and-the-mortgage-crisis/#comment-3037 Good response matt, but it begs me to ask; How in the world would you preach against/about greed, materialism, debt when people are financially thriving. I mean I am sure pastors will speak about the situation now, but if you were a pastor in Vegas a few years ago when everyone was raking in the money and not thinking about the long term consequences what would you have said? Good response matt, but it begs me to ask; How in the world would you preach against/about greed, materialism, debt when people are financially thriving. I mean I am sure pastors will speak about the situation now, but if you were a pastor in Vegas a few years ago when everyone was raking in the money and not thinking about the long term consequences what would you have said?

]]> Comment on Church Life and the Mortgage Crisis by matt http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/church-life-and-the-mortgage-crisis/#comment-3036 matt Sun, 05 Oct 2008 04:13:31 +0000 http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/church-life-and-the-mortgage-crisis/#comment-3036 Todd, I don't think top down repentance will specifically "help the situation." I do, however, think that it will be the impetus for the church to take ownership. I think the top down repentance will serve as an example to the congregation as to how to view the situation. I do not think I did a very good job flushing that out in the post. My purpose in writing was not a solution to the problem but more of a call for us as church leaders to not ignore such prevalent sin as it exists in our culture. I completely agree with your "depravity" economic theory. I just think gospel oriented preaching looks for the depravity in our culture and speaks to it. Not just the big stuff (sex, alcohol, country music), but the elephants in the room like the greed that fuels the "American Dream." Todd,

I don’t think top down repentance will specifically “help the situation.” I do, however, think that it will be the impetus for the church to take ownership. I think the top down repentance will serve as an example to the congregation as to how to view the situation. I do not think I did a very good job flushing that out in the post.

My purpose in writing was not a solution to the problem but more of a call for us as church leaders to not ignore such prevalent sin as it exists in our culture. I completely agree with your “depravity” economic theory. I just think gospel oriented preaching looks for the depravity in our culture and speaks to it. Not just the big stuff (sex, alcohol, country music), but the elephants in the room like the greed that fuels the “American Dream.”

]]> Comment on Church Life and the Mortgage Crisis by todd http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/church-life-and-the-mortgage-crisis/#comment-3035 todd Sat, 04 Oct 2008 22:24:47 +0000 http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/church-life-and-the-mortgage-crisis/#comment-3035 Matt how would top down repentance help the situation? I think the whole thing is a mess and like what ryan wrote on here earlier this week. It made me think about how all of us need to take some ownership in this crisis and not think it is all some other person's fault. Sadly, our economy is driven on two emotions; greed and fear. Greed was in full effect as everyone prospered off the housing situation and now it is a season of fear. Blaming people for this stuff just seems to be a waste of energy. I think we all just need to understand that depravity manifested in our economics. And that when people have the chance to do what is best and for the greatest number, or what will give them the most gain, they always choose their own self interest. Matt how would top down repentance help the situation?

I think the whole thing is a mess and like what ryan wrote on here earlier this week. It made me think about how all of us need to take some ownership in this crisis and not think it is all some other person’s fault.

Sadly, our economy is driven on two emotions; greed and fear. Greed was in full effect as everyone prospered off the housing situation and now it is a season of fear. Blaming people for this stuff just seems to be a waste of energy. I think we all just need to understand that depravity manifested in our economics. And that when people have the chance to do what is best and for the greatest number, or what will give them the most gain, they always choose their own self interest.

]]> Comment on Church Life and the Mortgage Crisis by aholydiscontent http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/church-life-and-the-mortgage-crisis/#comment-3034 aholydiscontent Sat, 04 Oct 2008 06:48:17 +0000 http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/church-life-and-the-mortgage-crisis/#comment-3034 So Good. My favorite part is "maybe our congregations would be best served by top down repentance", which is something i've seen VERY little of from pastors in my entire lifetime. Good word. So Good. My favorite part is “maybe our congregations would be best served by top down repentance”, which is something i’ve seen VERY little of from pastors in my entire lifetime. Good word.

]]> Comment on The Twelve Tribes of American Politics by rymk http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/the-twelve-tribes-of-american-politics/#comment-3033 rymk Fri, 03 Oct 2008 00:42:20 +0000 http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/the-twelve-tribes-of-american-politics/#comment-3033 I'm a moderate evangelical, even though I hate being in the same group as Osteen. I’m a moderate evangelical, even though I hate being in the same group as Osteen.

]]> Comment on Gospel of Matthew by thefuerstshallbelast http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2008/09/28/gospel-of-matthew/#comment-3032 thefuerstshallbelast Mon, 29 Sep 2008 05:20:54 +0000 http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/?p=632#comment-3032 I would only add the Political elites at the end (and at the beginning if you consider Herod's attempt to kill him). I would only add the Political elites at the end (and at the beginning if you consider Herod’s attempt to kill him).

]]> Comment on Shawn Kemp’s Retirement Plan by Bookmarks about Theory http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/shawn-kemps-retirement-plan/#comment-3031 Bookmarks about Theory Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:45:04 +0000 http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/?p=473#comment-3031 [...] - bookmarked by 5 members originally found by marcoseiji on 2008-09-07 Shawn Kemp’s Retirement Plan http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/shawn-kemps-retirement-plan/ - bookmarked by 5 members [...] [...] - bookmarked by 5 members originally found by marcoseiji on 2008-09-07 Shawn Kemp’s Retirement Plan http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/shawn-kemps-retirement-plan/ - bookmarked by 5 members [...]

]]> Comment on Joel Osteen Preaches at Mars Hill Church by Marcus F. Arelius http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2007/10/10/joel-osteen-preaches-at-mars-hill-church/#comment-3030 Marcus F. Arelius Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:37:28 +0000 http://mattandryan.wordpress.com/2007/10/10/joel-osteen-preaches-at-mars-hill-church/#comment-3030 Jak, The Word says about Jesus, "The Son of Man had no place to lay His head." And, Judas as "treasurer" had the responsibility to carry the money bag so Christ's ministtry could keep moving, giving to the poor, buying simple food for Him and His disciples, as needed, etc. Jesus was not a financially rich man like the proposerity preachers would have us believe. If He walked the earth today, He would definitely not be driving a big Benny Hinn Mercedes with gold trim. Speaking of Jesus, it says, "He became poor that we might become rich" - meaning, spiritually rich. The Word says "the flesh profits nothing." Where our treasure is stored up, whether in serving others and God, or in lusting after worldly riches that are corruptible, there also is where our hearts are. Peace in Christ, -Marcus Jak,

The Word says about Jesus,

“The Son of Man had no place to lay His head.”

And, Judas as “treasurer” had the responsibility to carry the money bag so Christ’s ministtry could keep moving, giving to the poor, buying simple food for Him and His disciples, as needed, etc. Jesus was not a financially rich man like the proposerity preachers would have us believe. If He walked the earth today, He would definitely not be driving a big Benny Hinn Mercedes with gold trim.

Speaking of Jesus, it says, “He became poor that we might become rich” - meaning, spiritually rich. The Word says “the flesh profits nothing.”

Where our treasure is stored up, whether in serving others and God, or in lusting after worldly riches that are corruptible, there also is where our hearts are.

Peace in Christ,

-Marcus

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